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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(1) — G King — 24/01/2010 11:40:37 | As far as I can see, there is no proprietary shade in the Railmatch, Precison, or Humbrol ranges of enamels that anything like properly matches the slightly bluish version of Brunswick Green used by Hornby on its latest steam locos such as the Gresley pacifics. In the interests of being able to patch paint alterations rather than to have to repaint and re-line the whole loco and tender, I'm working on a possible formula for a "perfect to the discerning eye" match, mixed from readily available paints in the mentioned ranges.
Can I ask if anybody already has a reliable formula that appears to work in all the different lighting conditiions in which my models might be seen, without the need for weathering to mask a discrepancy?
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(2) — 2512silverfox — 24/01/2010 12:58:39 | Graeme
I think we should be trying to educate Hornby into using a recognised true match rather than the other way round. I cannot speak for Railmatch, but the Precision range were matched in the 60's with the help of BR, as were the original Humbrol Authentics which some of us are still using. I find it a bit odd that the manufacturers insist on using finishes which differ sometimes to a remarkable degree. Let us hope that they read this thread!
Nick | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(3) — G King — 24/01/2010 16:42:49 | I absolutely agree Nick, though short of much pestering or the unrealistic hope of a boycott until they listen, how does one persuade Hornby to prevail sufficently upon its contractors in China to get the colour right?
In this instance I'm only trying to emulate the Hornby colour in order to make some alterations to a loco as inexpensively and effortlessly as possible. Otherwise I would have to repaint all of the green, and unless I were incredibly good at avoiding the lining, also re-line and replace insignia, on the whole of an A4 and tender. That would mean not only trying to get as smooth a finish as the factory did, which demands great care, but also having to tackle the devilishly difficult geometry of the parabolic lining at the front end. Hence my shameful "cop out".
So far, an 8 to 1 mixture of Humbrol 195 Dark Green and Humbrol 15 (a dark blue)looks hopeful.
Graeme | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(4) — JohnR — 24/01/2010 21:05:41 | Matching paint can be a nightmare as you have to "scale" the paint. I know this sounds crazy at first. The problem is that if you match exactly the shade on the prototype, it is too dark and you have to lighten the shade so that it appears correct in your scale. The lights you normally use to view the model will also have an effect. For more details, see this article on SEmG :-
http://www.semgonline.com/model/colour-scaling.html
So matching the paint to samples provided by BR or anyone else, must be seen as a starting point for creating paint for models.
It would be a good idea if Hornby and the paint manufacturers (Precision etc.) would give the exact definition of the colour in one of the recognized standards. Then we would at least be able to buy the right shade to patch paint as the OP requested (or have a better chance of mixing it).
Regards
John Russell | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(5) — vespa — 25/01/2010 09:33:37 | I hvae recently just renumbered 2 Brits. I used Modemaster masking sheets
http://www.modelmasterdecals.com/products.htm
And then to match the numbers
HMRS pressfix
HM014P (HMRS) Transfers BR Loco & Coach (Steam) Pressfix (Mainly Trains or Monk Bar Models)
Then a light coat of Matt varnish. Not perfect to very close scrutiny but fine at 12" +
Hope that may be some use | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(6) — 2512silverfox — 25/01/2010 11:53:42 | | I take John's point about scaling paint, but this aspect was not lost on Humbrol and Precision who were very careful to 'scale' their paint for use on 4mm:ft. This applies to all the products which both organisations developed in the 60s and early 70's. A very significant example is the Precision GER Loco Blue compared with a 12":1ft sample of the original paint which in a small area appears black! | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(7) — vespa — 25/01/2010 12:11:47 | | I will add that the masking transfers are perfect just the number a little brighter | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(8) — G King — 25/01/2010 13:53:15 | | I've never encountered Modelmaster masking sheets. Do they actually specify that each available shade is meant to match the Hornby colour, or the Bachmann colour and so on, or is it just by luck that waht they offer appears to match the contentious Hornby shade of green? Also, are we talking about large patches in which the colour can really be scrutinised, or a patch just big enough to obliterate an existing number or emblem which is then almost completely hidden by fresh insignia? | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(9) — vespa — 25/01/2010 16:17:22 | | They match very well I think. The nice thing is if your are not satisfied they will refund if returned intact | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(10) — G King — 25/01/2010 21:13:53 | | What I should have added earlier, had I not run out of time, was a clearer idea of what I'm trying to do. This is not just a need to cover old insignia for a rebranding exercise. I have much of a modified firebox and cab to restore to a matching colour, plus paintwork to invisibly repair on a boiler casing where a nameplate has been removed and no new nameplate will be fitted. Around the cab windows, and the firebox washout plugs for instance, I fancy it would be virtually impossible to use masking patches effectively, hence the requirement for matching paint is likely to remain, even if LARGE masking patches are available in the exact colour. | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(10) — G King — 25/01/2010 21:16:11 | | What I should have added earlier, had I not run out of time, was a clearer idea of what I'm trying to do. This is not just a need to cover old insignia for a rebranding exercise. I have much of a modified firebox and cab to restore to a matching colour, plus paintwork to invisibly repair on a boiler casing where a nameplate has been removed and no new nameplate will be fitted. Around the cab windows, and the firebox washout plugs for instance, I fancy it would be virtually impossible to use masking patches effectively, hence the requirement for matching paint is likely to remain, even if LARGE masking patches are available in the exact colour. | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(10) — G King — 25/01/2010 21:17:32 | | What I should have added earlier, had I not run out of time, was a clearer idea of what I'm trying to do. This is not just a need to cover old insignia for a rebranding exercise. I have much of a modified firebox and cab to restore to a matching colour, plus paintwork to invisibly repair on a boiler casing where a nameplate has been removed and no new nameplate will be fitted. Around the cab windows, and the firebox washout plugs for instance, I fancy it would be virtually impossible to use masking patches effectively, hence the requirement for matching paint is likely to remain, even if LARGE masking patches are available in the exact colour. | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(10) — G King — 25/01/2010 21:18:55 | | What I should have added earlier, had I not run out of time, was a clearer idea of what I'm trying to do. This is not just a need to cover old insignia for a rebranding exercise. I have much of a modified firebox and cab to restore to a matching colour, plus paintwork to invisibly repair on a boiler casing where a nameplate has been removed and no new nameplate will be fitted. Around the cab windows, and the firebox washout plugs for instance, I fancy it would be virtually impossible to use masking patches effectively, hence the requirement for matching paint is likely to remain, even if LARGE masking patches are available in the exact colour. | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(11) — G King — 25/01/2010 21:57:49 | | Oh my God, the server has gone berserk. Twice I was told that my attempt to post was timed out. Now my message appears four times!?*!?* | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(12) — vespa — 26/01/2010 09:27:39 | | Looks like a full repaint then. Just for interest the patches are shaded Bachmann and Hornby. | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(13) — G King — 26/01/2010 13:48:25 | Interesting to know that there is a stated bias to H or B in those paint patches.
Full repaint? No - come Hell or high water I'll get a paint match, otherwise there's a load of lining to re-do including some tricky curves, plus the difficulty of matching the original superb smoothness of finish and avoiding any burial of detail under excessive build up of paint.
As it happens, my brand new tin of Humbrol 195 dark green appears to dry to almost the perfect shade without any doctoring, whereas the last tin I had appeared to require addition of dark blue to achieve the right result! | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(14) — DavidBroad — 29/01/2010 16:07:40 | I suspect Doncaster BR Green was darker than say Eastleigh, and I have a suspicion Swindon's geeens were all over the place, they didn't have a paint shop and mixed paint in batches, much like Humbrol, and it could well be that depending on how long the bulk store had settled the hue would change.
The photographs of freshly painted locos in Late BR days show much lighter greens than I remember, the last unlined Britannias for instance, which again suggests that formultion if not official specifications for paint varied over time, the steam Locos lighter than the Green Diesels although I suppose rail blue had started by 1966?
From memory Humbrol Dirty Locomotivge Black or Hunbrol Rust and Matt black mixed make a fair representation of BR Green on a Loco actually in service, but then that's a generation thing.
I guess the True shade of BR Green is somewhewre between the GWR 94XX at Steam which has barely been outside to fade since repainted and preserved, and City of Truro which is much darker
The idea of matching model paint to models sounds good unril you see the kaleidoscope of greens Hornby, or even worse GR Wrenn managed to use.
Incidentally City of Truro ran with a light green patch onn her Left Cabside in DNS days where aq flare lamp scorched bthe oaint and a locl repaint with paint from a Hardware shop was made, so there is a prototype for just about anything. | |
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Exact match for Hornby's steam loco BR green?(15) — G King — 30/01/2010 10:43:01 | After painting a trial patch on a recent model Hornby A4 "Sparrow Hawk" the correct formula for this particular model now seems likely to be something like:
20 parts 195 satin green (latest tin!)
1 part 15 gloss blue
1 part 104 matt blue
Any more blue than this makes the shade too blue and too dark. Adding the blue as all gloss makes it too shiny and it falsely appears too dark, using all matt blue as the "tint" conversely makes it appear too matt and falsely light.
Blown in to a feather edge, and then varnished overall, or stopped at an edge or lining band I believe this will be indistinguishable from the remainder of the paintwork.
It's agood job the real livery shades varied as David points out, since paint manufacturers still seem to fail to achieve consistency, despite all the colour analysis technology that is now available should they care to use it! | |
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